Escaping the Straitjacket of Our Limiting Beliefs

Sprout Sweater Episode 20 : A Big Sweat Interview with Performance Coach, David Wilkinson

Join Dave Algeo aboard "Sprout 1" and take another journey into your inner world where mind, meaning and metaphor collide.

In this episode, Dave is joined by fellow performance coach David Wilkinson who shares his insights into coaching men and corporate professionals to overcome self-limiting stories and achieve more fulfilment in life and work.

David Wilkinson coaches people to realise their potential whilst revealing the limiting beliefs or subconscious narratives that hold them back so they are free to create the life, business, relationships and performance they desire to experience. Connect or learn more at:

Website: https://iamdavidwilkinson.com/ 

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/davidwilkinsoncoaching/

Dave Algeo is a writer, coach, trainer and speaker empowering others to live big, by identifying the small but significant things that can transform the life we are living. Join Dave on the good ship 'Sprout1' as we explore the inner galaxy of the human mind, and find the sprouts that make the biggest difference. These are the sprouts you are looking for.

Search for 'Sprout Sweater' in your favourite podcast feed. To find out more about the podcast, and episode show notes at Podcast — Stress(ed) Guru and more about his in person and online events at www.stressedguru.com. Drop Dave a line at dave@sproutsweater.com to ask questions, offer feedback or suggestions for future podcast content.

Episode 20 Show Notes

The following is a rough draft of the content (not a full transcript - more notes forming the basis of the podcast recording

This language, this speech, predictive language; We are only what we say we are, we are only what we tell ourselves we are and if reinforce that then we will live through that.

Welcome, aboard I’m your host, Dave Algeo chief sprout sweater. Strap in for this longer episode, a big sweat episode in which I interview somebody who has a particular area of expertise that I think is really valuable to share. This week in episode 20 I have David Wilkinson who is a coach who works with a number of different clients both specialising in men, male clients who are looking to maximise their life but also in the corporate world working to maximise potential and success. He brings with him a really down to earth approach. He has a great background which I will let explain and brings with him some really useful insights on how we can use self-coaching and understand more about the stories we tell ourselves both to understand how they can limit us but also how we can overcome them, so on with the show.

As we lift off the pad and before you get into the episode don’t forget if you find the demands of life and the meaning of it all is leading you to sleepless nights, tossing and turning, deep and not so deep questions rattling around your head, then hop on over to the sproutsweater.com and gain access to my free Operation Snooze Sleep Improvement audio program. Start getting your head back and your shit together so that you can start getting life back on your terms, sproutsweater.com.

Dave: This week it’s a big sweat episode as you will all know this is where we get the chance to, or I get the chance to pick the brains of an expert. Somebody with a lot of experience in working with people in terms of behaviour change and really pick their brains and see what we can learn to develop some of our own habits in improving our health, getting our head back our shit together and life back on our terms. So this week I’d like to welcome a friend and fellow coach who specialises in coaching men, David Wilkinson. Hello David, how you doing?

David: Hi Dave mate I’m very well thank you, how are you?

Dave: I’m great, I’m great. Not as good as you in the sense that you’re in Spain and I’m over here. I have to get that in.

David: Well, it’s a little warm here so that’s the only downside. Downside I’m only joking.

Dave: I’ll ask you about your background, but I guess just to put the context to that we have known each other for a few years and had a number of conversations over the years about our own businesses and business direction and development. One of the things I’ve always admired about you David is, well a lot of things, but one of the things is you did do a particular transition from your former work as a trainer, physical trainer into coaching and how you did that for me optimiser some of the classic ingredients of change. You know the grit, the determination but focus and with that, you built in your move to Spain which is where obviously our little joke about it is but you have actually transitioned across to Spain and you now run your business from there. So rather than me telling everybody do you want to just introduce yourself and put a bit of flesh on the bones for that.

David: Yeah, thank you very much, mate. I was a personal trainer for at least 14 years. It was like the big part of my initial career. Straight out of school I went to college and started studying sports science and then on that we did some gym instructing qualifications. Then I was like right I want to do personal training, so I got a job in the gym and they put me through an apprenticeship personal training program and by 2005 I believe I was starting to do that and in 2006 I qualified. From that point on in 2006, I was still physically training people up until early 2020. So that was like the length of timing and in that, I’d done everything from one on one personal training, boot camps, I ran my own gym which was a full training facility with staff; then I’ve gone down into more of a skeleton-based system towards the end which was when I was working on transitioning into doing what I do now which is kind of performance and mindset coaching. So I done qualifications for this about 2018 and it was yourself that recommended the course that I went on which was to Newcastle College. It was through our conversation that actually led me to go down that route on that course and start that process of making that transition. So, as I was juggling with the personal training and gym I had, I started to do this other side of my career and then built that up. Started getting some clients, ‘is this for me?’ you know go throw that typical thing, ‘your business is it for me?’, ’I have I got what it takes?’ Then transitioned and then it was interesting because obviously early 2020 COVID hit which meant that the gym closed anyway, certainly for a period of time and I was quiet in that space. So I was like I wanted to get out of it that year anyway and so I just took the opportunity then. Spent a lot of time for a few months really pushing it online because that was the space to do it you weren’t meeting people face to face. All the business went online and then I was like sitting in a room in the Northeast of England and I was coaching clients from there and I was like I can do this from anywhere. So next thing you know me and my fiance moved to Southern Spain in September 2020 and now we are still here now. 

Dave: You make it sound so easy as well. This is the thing because there is a lot in there isn’t there. I’m sure you know there has been some soul searching, some big decisions and things like that and you know I wouldn’t mind picking your brains about it because transitioning is a big part of I think for many of us in life. I think many of us get to a point in life where ‘is this it?’ ‘Is this what I’ve worked for?’ and we kind of start to question things. Now I’m of the view that we, you know, rather than kind of just chucking the baby out the bathwater we start examining areas of our life and then see what we can transition and sometimes it is about big decisions and sometimes it’s about little decisions or little habits as well. So, it’s a mix of those things but as somebody who transitioned as well probably took a lot longer than I needed to really because of mine own kind of self-limiting stories and things. I am fascinated with that because it’s how do we help people navigate that water. So just from that because there are so many areas that I wanted to pick on there really, what was your story around that change? What led you to, I don’t know, a question if you were effective and successful as that, in the physical training field doing those things, what led you to start to shift, or question or what have you.

David: Basically, there was a point where I think I really got, there are a few facets to it so I’ll share all of them but number one that always comes to mind is I started to get lost in it all. I started becoming a lot more focused on business than I had the actual personal training side of things. So because I was actually running a full business with members of staff, payroll you know all of these other things and wanting to grow that it became just about getting clients in and building a bigger business. That felt for me, that felt like the right thing to do but actually looking back I felt like a bit unaligned and misaligned from what really mattered to me. Like because coaching is always been something that loved and I was doing a lot less of that and I was just focused on building this business. In that sense of that, I also got lost with that of trying to build and build and build and build at the detriment of my relationships at home, my personal relationships, my mental wellbeing, and everything else that I believed in. By the time 2015 and 2016 I was really going to that like ‘I’m not happy’, ‘I’m not fulfilled’, ‘this is not what I thought it was going to be’ does that make sense you know. That’s the real feeling and I was like and the other facet of that was like I have always thought I love coaching. I always wanted to do the coaching I’ve done now. I’ve always wanted to do something like that but then it takes that time to a) believe in yourself but b) I was like working with people in the health and fitness area ‘yeah this is great’, ‘follow this nutrition plan and do this training get great results’ but then why wasn’t it sticking some people, why were some people getting stuck behind certain habits. Why were some people getting great results and other people were finding it a challenge which led me to think that there’s got to be more than just what you do. There’s got to be a lot more going on here. So this kind of transitioned back then also for myself like as I was going through that challenging time I did a bit of inner work. Soul searching, had some therapy, had some coaching. Went on my own personal journey which is what led me to be like I love this sort of doing a coach, being a coach. This was like kind of leading me down that, so there was a few factors that took that. 

Dave: Wow. So, again there are a couple of things I want to tease out but I’m going to kind of separate this idea firstly of why is it that some people achieve certain results and other people don’t because I think that is an interesting one to explore with you in due course. But this idea, this transitioning from my own experience and people that I work with I know how challenging that can be across the whole journey if you like from that point of you start at that initial starting point of the feelings, the feelings of, it starts to bubble up almost. I guess what was it that, I’m trying to kind of think from a perspective of some of the stories and journeys other clients have been on, it’s what brings you to a point where you actually take action. What was it that led you to that kind of, some of those crunch points, you know?

David: Yeah. I mean I’ve got to be honest I have always been somebody that’s willing to take a little bit of a risk. I always have been, and I do have that in me but it takes some time to get to that point to take that little step off the ledge and that little leap of faith because I think we too often as people want certainty. We need to have certainty of what is going to happen, what might happen, where will this lead us. We actually can’t have that it doesn’t exist for us. So being able to get our head around the fact that life is uncertain we have to just go off what we feel is the right choice and doing then our best behind that. It almost has to be this little leap of faith I feel. We can have all the information, all the books, all the courses but then there is this bit isn’t there where you’ve just got to step off the ledge and go for it. That was definitely that but there was a big fact and it’s important to share because I was already working with people and had a business and ultimately the people who I coach in the gym, some of them would be friends I really had a deep connection to these people, my God did I feel guilty about thinking about walking away from that. That was painful man. Like there was a lot of like pain and discomfort. There was a lot of tears. I’m not going to lie, I felt so guilty about wanting this new life and career and could feel it and grasp but the anchoring,  the guilt, which ultimately was fear, fear of the unknown, fear of walking away, fear of ‘I’ve done this all this time and who would I be and what would I do without this?’ It takes a lot of time to get the head right in terms of external support from coaching or some sort of external support. A lot of inner work and soul searching which is not a quick fix. Then that little leap of faith that we will all have to take if we are going to transition. 

Dave: Yeah, I think that’s brilliantly explained and thanks for being so upfront and honest about it. I think sometimes one of the problems I have with the world of self-help so-called or personal development is that it often is branded as a very quick easy thing of just follow these 6 steps. We’ve had these conversations before so I’m glad we are on the same track on this. I think that’s the point if you are a human being which the majority of people listening are

David: Some interstellar galactic.

Dave: Aye you never know, the reach of the podcast you never know. The point is if you are human being a lot of this is about the emotional journey and the psychological journey of negotiating the fear and all these emotions. I think one of the things I’m picking up here is and for other listeners is that’s going happen every time, it’s normal. It’s normal to have these feelings I would guess for most of us. what we do with them is a different thing. For some people, it might be to change a small part of their life or to undertake I don’t know learn a language or something like that, something that stimulates them there. For others, it may be a bigger change, but that change is how do wrestle with it and navigate it. I think it’s really good to share that and give us a feeling that it isn’t simple. You don’t just follow the recipe and that’s it you know.

David: And I think right Dave, people who I guess sell and promote that like it’s a simple solution it just isn’t because you aren’t taking into fact when you look at it factually it’s simple. Do this and then do that and move from that to that and what’s the problem but emotionally which you hit the nail on the head, emotionally the weight and the whole connection to what was, who you think you are, what has happened in the past, to what is possible going forward, that’s about navigating those emotions and being able to eye up most things, just get them under some sort of management almost. Otherwise, that fear of self-doubt will always drive, will always be there and that’s the very thing that can stop people you know moving forward or something, or searching for something else or making that transition. 

Dave: You’ve said a couple of times there which is something I’m really fascinated with is ‘who am I in this?’ or ‘who do I become?’ or ‘what does this say about me?’ you know the identity that we have. I think that’s often wrapped up in the stories we tell ourselves about ourselves. Any thoughts, well what was your experience in kind of what did you have to shift some stories or your centre of who you were.

David: Because I think we I assume like many, many people that our personality is fixed and permanent like, we think we are this that I am permanent ‘this is who I am’. We don’t realise that our personality is all creative. We have created ourselves to this point. Sometimes indirectly through our upbringing and then a lot through our own sense of self and we create this permanent act. So we start using language like ‘this is me’ or ‘I couldn’t do that’, ‘I’ve always done it this way’. This is a fixed personality which you can’t navigate from. So for as long as you think your permanent you’ve got no breathing space to actually change. You know I was talking about it like this element of like imagine you’re in a straight jacket. So you are wearing a straight jacket and you feel stuck. This is how people see themselves ‘I’m stuck this is who I am’ but actually what is not available to you is the possibility of actually there is another way, there is something else. I try to get people to realise it’s like if you could just for a second hold the notion that you aren’t fixed and that you could see another way, be another way, act another way it creates a little space. Can you for a moment just create a little space in that straight jacket. Don’t worry about how to get out of the full thing. Just think can I move a little bit, nudge a bit of space and that is power.

Dave: I love that. I love that idea. I love that visual actually because one of the things that, I think you’re absolutely right we get fixed, I call it predictive speech. You know we have predictive text, but predictive speech is what you say you’re almost predicting your future like ‘I’m a born worrier’. That kind of says that I’m not going to change. Don’t get me wrong I might have to manage and change and there are habits to form etc. but that doesn’t mean to say that I’m fixed in that. I think that’s a really powerful metaphor. I remember back to a story where; I’m not going to a woe straight about me for this but sitting talking to somebody who made a major transition in his life and sitting and talking to him over a couple of beers and he said, ‘Dave I’m the happiest I’ve ever been’. I remember thinking that will never be me that, that will never be me. And that was exactly that, it’s that feeling of I’m fixed. My life, my lot, my everything is set. I think you are absolutely right you need to have if you’re in that set position, we need to somehow get something that gives you that encouragement, that influence, that something that says actually you can have a little bit of hope. There is hope here and that hope is that space in the straight jacket. 

David: And it’s right you know. I always laugh with my clients and give this analogy. You know people use this term like ‘I’m an imposter, I’m an imposter’. I’m like yeah, yeah so what your saying is John when you born the doctor went to your mam and dad ‘look you’ve got a baby boy and by the way, he’s an imposter as well just so you know this’. It’s total fabrication of the mind. We create exactly what you said there this language, this speech predictive language. We are only what we say we are. We are only what we tell ourselves we are and if we reinforce that then we will live through that, don’t we, we keep the actions there. I like where you said a little bit of hope and I think of that it’s creative possibility. Is there possibility here that I could create something different? You don’t have to have it all figured out, we don’t have to have the journey mapped out the next 10 years. Just have to think this doesn’t have to be the way it is what else is available to me. 

Dave: You’re right and it’s that what if or what could or just give myself permission to even allow yourself to dream. I know there’s often a lot of resistance there from if you’ve built up a lot of that resistance. In order to be rigid, or to believe that you’re rigid you have had to fortify the defences so that, it’s almost like your mind needs to be comfortable with that rationalisation. For me, the journey I went through but also some of the clients is you’ve got to start somewhere. So that space, that allowing yourself you know you could, what could it be like. You said something and I’m trying to think of your words where you said, I’m not going to use the exact words but it almost like ’ok so park that for a moment and just imagine or just allow yourself to think or dream’ it wasn’t your words that you used but that idea of just giving somebody permission to do that I think is really, really powerful. 

David: It’s so true. I mean like there is you know thinking about like from a lot of the stuff that I learned in college and university and courses; you’re learning the human brain is just there to protect and predict. It wants to protect itself so creates like protection or mechanisms and behaviours and patterns, so you don’t step too far away from safety. Illusional safety right, but it’s also trying to predict the outcomes in future of what could happen, of what might happen which is why we live in a world of this illusion of control or safety of not stepping too far away because it’s uncertain. Thus, meaning we start feeling this fight or flight response which ultimately this is a real thing that people feel, and we feel that fear, that nervousness, that maybe anxiety. This is normal. People like, you know, it’s not like there is something broken with the person feels ‘ah I want to do something different, but I feel a little bit unsure’ we are able to just kind of go well this is the brain actually doing what it was designed to do. However, it isn’t helping you because you’re not able to just for a second go ‘I need to just park this’, ‘I need to just rationalise this and open my mind up to what is creatively possible for me in life’ because at the end of the day if you don’t create a future then your brain will already create one for you. From your history as well, from what has happened to you in the past and your history.

Dave: Absolutely. I love that kind of nice simplification, it’s there to preserve and predict. That’s a great way of kind of allowing yourself to see it and the prediction bit is often where your speech can become that thing that then continues to self-limit you. The story, your speech is often a reflection of the stories you are telling yourself about that as well. So I guess, there is a lot of things in your transition and change and you mentioned in your practice as a physical instructor, one to one with groups with the gym. What have you learned then that is potentially the differentiator between or are the differentiator between somebody who actually gets on board and follow it through to whatever the outcome is, you know of success in their quotes and somebody who struggles or hits a wall or a barrier? What have you found?

David: I always believed it’ll be often the intention behind somebody’s why of doing it so, if somebody does it from a place of lack often like I lack something. I’m not attractive, I’m overweight, I’m not worthy, I’m not valuable, I’m this type of person and they come from trying to get in better shape because they feel they lack something or have a belief that they have a problem about themselves. They come into their weight loss journey from a place of fear. Like I’ve got to improve something about myself because I’m not good enough. That there will almost always land somebody down the route of its never good enough. I’ve never lost enough weight; I don’t look good enough. A person could have lost 3 stones with still more go, never happy never fulfilled, never enjoying what they are doing because it’s coming from a lack. So, I need more of it but you can’t get more of what you don’t need. The other part of it is the people who would generally succeed more would be people who have come from a place like, almost like abundance I’m doing this for the reasons for not to gain because I lack but to just to better myself. To be a little bit, I guess just like feel better but be in the journey, be in the process like I’m good at what I’m doing and enjoying it, who are there not to just quick fix it but to be part of that journey. There was a different intention and energy behind people. I’m not judging either because you only know what you know but I also say if you feel like you’re not good enough and lack something it’s very difficult to stick to something because it’s never going to be enough. You can’t fill that void. The other people who have got a different intention behind it tend to stick and manage it a little bit better. I didn’t know that until now, until the last couple of years. But if you reflect it from the clients I work with now and say what would have made different, if I knew now what I knew then what difference I could have made for somebody, who knows.

Dave: So interesting. One of the things that came up in my head there was the thought of the friction that we add or add into the system in the sense of somebody who is doing it because they just want a journey. It’s that journey of challenging themselves, developing it etc., there isn’t that friction of that not good enough story. There may be other stories, we’ve all got them, but I can imagine, and I know from my own personal journey and working with others is that, that not good enough story or I’ll better when or it’ll be better when or I’ll be worthy when, that’s a hell of a burden isn’t it. For me and what I see and what I’ve personally is that can turn to quite a cruel driver and inner voice. So you’re not just trying to work towards a goal your trying to deal with and manage this inner, sometimes really cruel inner critic I guess. 

David: I think that’s a great way to put it. I think you’re right about the friction or pressure, pressure to the situation, external pressure sorry internal pressure, pressure doesn’t exist outside. You know if you’ve got someone who feels like they are inadequate or self-loathing to themselves, judging themselves like they have insecurities and problems. If that person is then ‘I’ll be happy when’, they are just held the happiness hostage haven’t they to a point in the future where they can be this is how I feel content instead of being happy doing. If you like my happiness is held hostage until I get the end result until I’m a millionaire until I’ve got abs until I live here or have this sized business they are almost per testing the journey and shaming themselves for not being there sooner. That’s a lot of friction and pressure like you said.

Dave: You know you said something there about the shaming thing of shaming because they are not there sooner, or why did I let myself get there. I wonder how much shame plays into this. I’m a big fan of Brene Brown’s work and she has done a lot of research into shame and women. I know she has done some research in relation to men and there are different drivers on that, but I think there is something there isn’t there around, it’s almost like you are lifting a weight anyway. You’re lifting the weights but you’re carrying a hell of a weight in your head as well. 

David: Absolutely I mean imagine that. The self-shaming of not being there sooner or by why aren’t I there sooner, why have I let myself go like this. Who loves me? My husband doesn’t want me, my wife doesn’t want me. My kids don’t like me. Boss doesn’t respect me. These are all real concerns for people I’m not saying that they are not, but they are all created with inside of ourselves because we do not feel like we are good enough. So and if we said I have a problem and by actually doing something to try to fix that problem you are reinforcing the fact that you have a problem when you don’t. It’s a fascinating part of the human psyche right. But whereas if the person has like being fit and healthy is good, it’s good for me, it’s good for you, it’s good for the human body and I can be happy. I’m happy going to the gym I felt good there or I’m happy eating this food group or I’m happy doing these habits, that’s a very different person. Now you are absolutely right that person might have a story in another part of their world, but they don’t have it about that part and that’s the key isn’t it, it’s about actually revealing these narratives we have about ourselves to go where’s the truth in this. To almost let them go put them burdens down, those heavyweights down and our mind to be free.

Dave: Yeah, I love that, and I think your right. We all have narratives and overarching it’s a bit like the box sets, isn’t it? There’s an overarching like arch story, then within each season, there’s a one we’ve all got that in life. We’ve got a life arc and then we’ve got a seasonal arc and maybe a weekly arc and stuff. But the point is I guess the question that comes back, this is something that is interesting I don’t know what you think about this, but these stories have evolved I guess out of that predict, preserve, and predict kind of driver. They haven’t evolved to make us happy. They’ve evolved to help us navigate life and we can be thoroughly miserable doing that. So long as we are navigating life those stories compliment that. I guess my question is when we are trying to unearth the stories, we are also asking ourselves questions well is that story serving me at the moment. So, it may be true it may not be true. We can dig into that but is it serving me.

David: Is it serving me, yeah. Because understanding, sometimes I’m always trying to understand why, where that comes from or why we have it doesn’t really matter so much. At the end of the day what’s the time or purpose of any living organism is to survive. That is why we have everything that we haven’t, we, our purpose is to survive. It’s not to be happy. It’s now, I don’t mean that being happy is not good, but everything is to keep us alive which means that we have built-in our DNA thousands and thousands a year depend on who you believe and how long we have gone back that prediction and protect is the number one thing. So, if I have to go into a room full of people and I don’t know anybody and I feel like uncomfortable ok this is completely normal. We don’t have to label it something, this is truly normal for us because we feel threat response, flight or fight it comes until we become more comfortable. So, you’ve got this part of the human being to survive and then I think what we might have is this spiritual side, this guidance of being happy and contentment and feel like a more of a personal pursuit journey. I think that’s where sometimes we are conflicted between these sides of ourselves which is understanding that the human meets safety or needs some form of assurance. Then we have this part like what is possible and purposeful and loving and compassionate and happiness and that there. I think we have to work with both, I don’t know what you think about that but that’s kind of like what I’m discovering and reading about and thinking about you know.

Dave: Just on that there is a great book actually which is going to feature in one of my future podcasts call Transcend by Scott Barry Kaufman. He’s revisited the work of Maslow, you know Maslow’s Hierarchical Needs which incidentally Maslow never described it as a pyramid that was introduced by the 1960s management consultants but it’s a great book because he revisits a lot of Maslow’s work around that. I totally agree. There is the basic needs if you like that we need to work on otherwise how sustainable are we going to be in life. For many of us, I think this is why many of us get a point in life where we think ‘there’s got to be more to this, there’s something else’. Now whether you describe it as spiritual or whatever we have all got different paths and what have you but I think absolutely vital to explore that if you are questioning that; to kind of explore and see what you can get to develop the maximiser. I think that idea we haven’t evolved to be happy is true as a physical creature but there is something more isn’t there. There is something more for human beings, I absolutely totally get that.

David: I wonder if the fact then right lets, I wonder if you know you’ve got like because the basic needs of food, survival, protection are there. When they are, like you say, when they are met then the only other element is this direct of purpose and giving more and serving humanity right. But it’s almost like if we are still stuck in fear, we can’t transition to that next point because we are still stuck in survival mode instead of that thriving mode without doing terminology and phrases like that. But if I’m only focused on keeping myself safe because my history has proved to me I’ve had to do that and that will be your bit of a journey to go through to be a goal. Well actually what is possible and then that’s that next level, isn’t it? 

Dave: Something you mentioned before you’re going to experience the fear and you know you walk into that room of strangers you experience the fear and that’s normal. How do we condition ourselves to kind of move, get used to it, get comfortable etc., and move in that direction I think is really, really useful. Trying to think of it in terms of how do we if we are in a place where you know we are going to experience challenges and fear if we are experiencing this thing of ‘do I do this, do I not’ or step in and do it. How do we, how do you help your clients past and present sort of navigate through that so that they can manage the fear as it goes forward because I think that’s a big, big part of it isn’t it?  How do you help in that respect? 

David: I guess we are number one and we have start with meeting a person where they are like compassionately. If you feel like some form of fear or anxiety or uncertainty this is ok, and I like people to understand that this is ok. Be compassionate to yourself, be kind. Accept that this is a normal experience there is nothing wrong with you, you’re not broken, you’re not weak, you’re not courageous. You are just a human at the end of the day like all of us. We like to meet people where they are. The next thing is almost like what perception do you have of yourself that is perpetuating that fear for you around this. So what perception do you hold about yourself? Now it’s kind of like there is a bit of an element where you want to break it back to a point where for every single person there was a story created for that part of themselves that narrative. Before that, there was a blank canvas. You know this because if you look at your very young children, they don’t go around being concerned about themselves, they just are. They’re in the learning stages early stages but they don’t have it. What happens is we start to create some form of narrative that explains why I’m not lovable, why I’m not appreciated, why I don’t get what I want. We internalise so that at a point in this story was created but it was only a perceptual story. If you can help the client go back and see where that was formed, then what the truth was versus their actual illusion or version of that because it might have been you fell over and your mam didn’t say are you ok because she was busy. It doesn’t mean that she didn’t love you it was just was what happened and from this point, you started then going ‘I’m not worthy’ and then built this up and other things have reinforced that. So we do that to actually compassion, create awareness and actually understand that the perception that you have of yourself is probably miss created and we could at any moment from where you are, create an alternative future. Because if you think to yourself ‘I’ll never be loved’ say for example projects that out ‘I’m not loveable’, ‘I’ll never be loved’, ‘I’ll never be in a good relationship’ or here’s an alternative the very next person you meet could be the love of your life. Now my version of what I’ve set you is as real as your version is because you don’t know that’s going to happen and I don’t know mines going to happen but there is two versions of it which one do you want to be engaged with. 

Dave: I love that idea. The thing about the stories is that as we go through life, they get layered, don’t they? They get layered upon layer with confirming evidence. It seems to me that we kind of draw the evidence that supports that interpretation.

David: You know why though don’t you?

Dave: Why?

David: We don’t want to be wrong.

Dave: Because we are uncomfortable with that dissidence aren’t we. If like hang on a minute haven’t got a grip of this, I can’t make sense of the world if I’m wrong all the time so it must be right and we pull this together and also we tend towards remembering the more negative and magnifying the negative because its out to survive I guess. So your right. Then challenging those stories, I guess then in terms of you’ve talked about what you do with clients now then let’s get into the work you do now so we can flesh it out with some examples. You’re working with who and what are some of the challenges and what are some of the stories they tell and how do you help them navigate that.

David: OK. So, I work with I guess anybody that wants to perform better in what they do. I know you highlighted it before that I work with men, and I do primarily work with men unless it’s a corporate business setting which I work with everybody that’s involved in that organisation. But effectively they will come with something that they don’t have; they want more of something or something is not where they want it to be. They might not have enough money; they might want to be more successful; they might want to have better relationships; they might want to be in better shape, they come with these things. They are happy, I’m not clear I’m not fulfilled whatever. They are just access points to actually underneath. What is underneath that creates that way that a person sees why they don’t have enough. Everything is a lens in which we see the world through to ourself. So when each of these people whatever they come to, I’m not saying that it’s not right not wrong but it’s a symptomatic issue of something else or deep-seated belief around who they are and why they don’t have that. Even when I always get behind what do you really want but first we must break back all the limiting beliefs or subconscious narratives you hold of yourself because I think if you make goal-based decisions from a place of lack and fear they might not be fully aligned to what you truly want. I don’t sit with people and go let’s just start setting goals and start doing it let’s go towards it. I’ve realised it doesn’t work because I’ve realised there is always a sticking point with people. So I get people to actually start realising and revealing who they are to themselves. That sounds a bit weird right but it’s not weird. Do you really know who you are, are you consciously aware of who you think you are and what it is that you think about yourself and why your life isn’t working. It’s the be and what you do want your life to be. I want to get that picture. Actually, I want them to see that picture. It’s not me telling them its me helping them through coaching work to reveal that. From that then I will get them to start thinking about what they really want to be committed to in their world and actually as a place to come from. So what is you want to do from where you are. What do you want to create from this point here? What is possible, what future do you want to have but we are doing it now. Not working towards that future but coming from the behaviours and actions and mind setting traits that are going to allow that to live out. That’s where the magic happens when you can start doing that now. As people go along that journey it’s not as if like ‘I’ve released all my stuff or my shit and now I’m free to be all that’ they will always come up to a new sticking point which reveals something about them where they are not free in life. Damn works to that bit. But every time you almost peel that back to get there quicker. It’s the first bit where it’s heavy because it’s more reinforced, boxed in, isn’t it? then as you get through them they can see it faster. Catch up quicker. Bring the awareness that they need, it’s all about awareness and then when they have that they can practice to move forward.

Dave: There’s a lot there. One of the things there, I don’t know if you’ve experienced it and I’m sure you have but is that what often people come to a coaching way as in presenting goal or idea is it’s often not the real thing if you dig underneath. It’s not to minimise that it’s often that’s a symbol of something else and then you dig into that. As you say there is a lot of work. One of the things I’ve found is that’s pretty exhausting for them. The number of clients who after the session they will kind of report back how great it was but how drained and exhausted they were. Because it is like you say it’s really hard work. So how do you move on from that because again this isn’t, it takes a bit of courage, and it takes that effort as well doesn’t it to do it. It’s a starting point of something where there can be a real change for somebody.

David: You’re right yeah, it’s exhausting for people and sometimes you come away from the session and people will like, they seemed happier when they come than when they went off because you’re going against the very narrative and where you see yourself. So these people are having to break through this but I like to leave people as much as I can with an element of some form of positivity or possibility after that point. Even if they’ve revealed ‘God this is why I’ve been living this way for the last 25 years’, we are not going to judge that. We are not putting pressure in on this is bad and shame on you; this is what it is but now we are free of it or now we can see it for what it really is, now we can move forward. Regardless of the heaviness of something as to how I suppose just the way we see it anyway and our language there is actually always a positive outcome from it, even if it meant a little bit of deeper soul searching. Now I had a coaching client before this, it finished half an hour before this call and that was a heavy session. That was really heavy but he is also a coach and because that there is a deep level we can get in but there is also what they think they should know and more so what they don’t see, their blind spots which is why they hire a coach to help you see what you don’t see. That always leaves the warm of like there’s things to take away, there’s things to reflect on there’s things to put down but that’s the work. If you truly want it, that’s the work, isn’t it?

Dave: When you said about sometimes you feel like they’re feeling less positive when they leave a session, I think that’s how we can reflect on it as a coach, but I think you are right there is work there but it’s also the exciting part. One of the things I do sense with the vast majority of clients is that they take away that sense of ‘that was hard but my goodness I can see something’. You said now we can do, we can start to build on it and change things and what have you. So how do you build them on that because one of the things that I tend to find is that at the end of sessions its one or two things to work on, small things to work on and move forward. How do you progress that then?

David: As like anything with coaching there always needs to be some form of actionable outcome. That’s what you can affect from leaving somebody with to work upon through the next one. So we will effectively always work on some form of outcome but I will ask them what it is that they feel that they need to do. What do they want to do next what options are there for them to be able to now you know this or are aware of it or can now understand there is a choice here, what is it you are going to do? They will always leave with one or two things. That might be something of, it has to be something of implementation, doesn’t it? Even if there is some form of reflective journaling it’s still implementation. That’s what we always want to have. Take it from like ok we’ve talked about our evading it but now there’s actual implementation. One or two things tops. 

Dave: You mentioned journaling or reflection. I think we’ve had conversations about this in the past but I’m a big fan of just developing some sort of reflective practice even if it is in small ways initially and the power of it. How have you found that with yourself and clients? 

David: Always like for me always journaling and always reflective. I think you can have different elements. You can have journaling where might maybe ask yourself some certain questions maybe to create some kind of attention or focus for the day. Sometimes I like that but more often than not I will reflect in my journal, or I might just spend 10 minutes outside just reflecting on something. You know reflecting on the concept for me or life or something for a client. It doesn’t matter. I spend more time doing that than I ever spent in my life. The more I’m doing it the more it really helps I can honestly say. And yes, I would love every one of my clients to journal and do that but it’s not about me telling them to do that they almost have to move to that themselves. Those that actually do it consistently love it. Those that play in and out of it, they won’t always get that feeling that true benefits of self-reflection.

Dave: You’re right. It’s about and this is the whole point, as we encourage somebody to have that little bit of hope, it’s then helping them see that they can have the power to make changes and then choosing the actions that they take, experimenting with them. Sometimes they take an action that hasn’t worked for them its not right for them that’s part of that self-empowerment so you can start to get the confidence that you can change your own stories and your own direction, I guess. Just I’m conscious of time and thank you for the time that you have given us today it’s brilliant. It’s always brilliant to talk to you anyway but it’s great to share this on the podcast as well. What, I guess over the years if we could kind of capture a few key things in terms of how somebody might start to implement or adopt a new habit, it could be a health habit. We’ve talked about health one of the common things I find around just health and sleep and just some self-care things. How do you support or guide or what advice would you give somebody who’s trying to just implement their new habit or new routine into their life?

David: I think what we want to do is remove the weight from it so what we can do is we can create a habit routine and start adding emotional attachment to that and feelings like ‘I don’t feel like doing that today’ or ‘I don’t feel like in that space to do that’. We put too much emphasis sometimes into that versus just the application like brushing your teeth. It doesn’t really matter whether or not you feel like it or not most of the time they do it because it’s just habitual. So we want to get people just to the fact that however long it takes just start. So let’s say it was go for a walk 20 minutes a day, just start with that. Don’t concern yourself about who you need to be and how you need to do and what emotional space you need to do. Just go for the walk and just do. Don’t worry about how far you go and how fast you do it and all the metrics that compare yourself to yourself, just do, just do, just do. It’s about for me getting people to try and remove the weight and remove emotional attachment to more of the fact that just like doing. If you can them all doing it’s a lot better. Again, thinking not as a version of self-punishment either because anything we do it’s like ‘I’m overweight and that’s rubbish’ and ‘I don’t journal enough and that’s rubbish’ and ‘I’m anxious that’s rubbish’. It’s like all this heaviness has to go and be light and be with what we do. And by default, by just doing something before you know it it’s consistent and it’s part of your life. For me, there’s no like right that’s the perfect way for everybody but that’s a little arc that works quite well.  

Dave: I love that. I think that also ties into one of the things I’ve learned is that if you have a goal it’s not to spend too much time on the goal or in the goal because it’s a reminder of how far away. So as you said if part of your goal is to be somewhere to get to a certain level of health and the walk is that part, if every time you are on that walk you’re reminding yourself how far away from the goal you are or checking in, your adding weight aren’t you. Whereas if you say right ok the walking itself and of itself is something I’m going to learn to enjoy and be present in; take that weight off I think that’s brilliant because it’s about then starting to enjoy the process, not the outcome. 

David: Absolutely and I love that, you’re bang on. You focus on that outcome it’s almost like the outcome is not yours it’s so many other factors that will affect the ability for that. There is three stages preparation, execution, and outcome. You can be involved in preparation execution, but the outcome is not fully yours. You might set out to lose a stone and hey you might lose 10lbs or you might lose 2 stone, but a lot of other factors can affect that like your health, the weather, other people, like family situations. Just put the outcome over there. That’s what I want, that’s ok this is what I want. Leave it in the future there and be in the process of preparation execution however think about what the activity gives you and brings you versus taking away. So if it like ‘So I’ve got to give up my morning 20 minutes of walking to get that’ it’s a sacrifice that’s not really going to be empowering versus ‘ah it gives me such good energy and I get good fresh air’ and there’s a by-product that you’ll lose a little weight.  

Dave: I love that and that’s an important reframe isn’t it because again if we are adding friction in of like ‘I’ve gotta do this and what am I losing’ that’s just extra friction. The thing is it’s not losing sight of the why you’re doing it but it’s just learning to take your head away from the outcome all the time and just enjoying it now. 

David: Well, the big thing with that is what I’ve found with clients is like I said is they assume that the outcome will create the happiness that we seek. So they think like happiness is a place to get to this end result is where I will be happy. I’ll be fulfilled, it’s the answer to all my dreams so until I get there then I’ll just be miserable and depressed. But actually, happiness is a place to come from. So you can only be happy in the now. You can’t pre-frame that in 3 months’ time that’s when you’ll be happy on an obscure Tuesday in December. You are either happy now or you aren’t and so I would put yourself into a state of happiness which does something or stop holding your happiness hostage because it ain’t going to come because you assume it will in the future. It’s like finding that sense of like yeah whatever you do the end result won’t give you what you think it will give you. It will give you something but if we are in this now process what can I give to this moment. What is this moment giving me? That is much more powerful and actually rewarding and by default them little conscious intentions will get you somewhere very close to that goal if not surpass it. 

Dave: Brilliant. I tell you what I cannot think of a better way to end this. It’s great. It encapsulates a lot of the whole conversation and I guess the spirit of the sprout sweater which is that idea of what can we start to focus on now; the small day to day things and kind of put our attention there and let the future take care of itself in that respect. Thank you, David. Thank you for your time. Can I just ask, obviously links and where to get in touch with you etc., will be in the show notes but if you want to give a shout out to how to follow you, get in touch and what you’re working on anything of interest that you want to share please do.

David: You can follow me on LinkedIn if you want to so just put my name in David Wilkinson there is a picture of my head there so just follow that one. Instagram I’m on there as well David Wilkinson coach and my website is I am David Wilkinson.com. People can just engage, follow my stuff if they like it, the blogs and posts and go through that. What I’m working on is being a better coach really and working with people and that’s what I do.

Dave: Brilliant.

David: Thank you for having me.

Dave: Your posts are really genuine and honest, and I think that’s a reflection of development as a coach isn’t it. If you are true and authentic and humble in that I think that’s what makes you a far more effective coach as well. All the best with it and thank you and I hope the audience has taken away a few sprout sized ideas and thoughts there and we’ll catch you in the next episode. Cheers again David, thank you

David: Thanks mate, bye.

 I hope you’ve enjoyed your flight aboard sprout1. For show notes and information on how to get the podcast feed direct to your apple podcast, Spotify or other favourite podcast feed visit sproutsweater.com and touchdown!

Links

https://iamdavidwilkinson.com/

https://www.linkedin.com/in/davidwilkinsoncoaching/

https://www.instagram.com/davidwilkinsoncoach/

Episode 21 Teaser

In episode 21 Dave asks the question - what if you don't do it? and encourages you to consider the power of negative thinking in motivating you to take action towards your goals